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major FTP issue
http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1311
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Author:  cusance174 [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  major FTP issue

All current up to date FTP clients now use FTP over TLS protocol. Filezilla, SmartFTP etc. Its the latest protocol which has been established now for some years. Many clients are therefore dropping passive FTP and use FTP over TLS as standard now including the MLSD command for the display of folders. The X10 does not support FTP over TLS nor the MLSD command which means that when you update your FTP client, it probably wont work with the X10. Can anyone please let me know when the FTP server in the X10 will be updated to support the now standard protocol FTP over TLS?
I am currently using an old version of an FTP client but that wont last for ever ofcourse.

thanks

Author:  cusance174 [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

I can also further report that the FTP code is actually broken on the current X10 FTP server.
For example when interrogated it reports back that it does support the MLSD command but when that command is issued it doesnt recognise it.
(as i understand it MLSD is a command to display the folder list rather than the old LIST command)
here is part of an abbreviated listing a programmer will understand to support the above:

Command: FEAT
Response: 211-Extensions supported
[...]
Response: MLST size*;type*;perm*;create*;modify*;
[...]
Response: 211 end
[...]
Command: MLSD
Response: 500 'MLSD': command not understood.

Author:  Hobs [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

You can use a current client but disable the MLSD option (ftp/Transfer...).
Happens with port problems & incompatibilities etc

Author:  freemartial [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

Looking at the reply it looks like mlst is advertised or compatible.
I don't use it but have you tried FTPS explicit for connection?
Are there any firewall problems on your network?
Sometimes broken virtual directories could cause that too ...

Author:  cusance174 [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

freemartial wrote:
Looking at the reply it looks like mlst is advertised or compatible.
I don't use it but have you tried FTPS explicit for connection?
Are there any firewall problems on your network?
Sometimes broken virtual directories could cause that too ...


I use fileZilla which has worked fine with the X10 until they upgraded and went to FTP over TLS by default and using the MLSD command. (Although one has nothing to do with the other).
They say that it is clear from the listing (initial connect is normal, its the folder listing that doesnt work. It is also clear from the connection log that the X10 does not support FTP over TLS which has been a standard now for some time) that the server FTP software is broken in as much that it reports as being MLSD compatible but when the command is issued
it returns a 500 error code as not recognised. The same happens with smartFTP. Looking at the complete detailed listings it is clear that there is something strange going on at the X10 side. The server sits inside my firewall which is McAfee and older FTP clients using passive FTP with the LIST command work fine.

I would be very interested to hear if someone who has very recently downloaded the latest version of Filezilla can connect and do a directory listing to the X10.
I think that there is something screwy about the X10 software but it needs to be proven i think. The only wat that can be done if by someone else trying it, thus excluding my network which is bog standard. nothing special, win7 with Mcafee and the BT hub 5. Thats it.
not sure what you mean by FTPS explicit. as I said, the previous version of FileZilla works fine with the X10.

Author:  Hobs [ Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

See: https://wiki.filezilla-project.org/FTPS ... to_(Server)

Looks like an update or my system could be messed up :)
Tried using command prompt but it failed, by PATH could be the problem.
I think you could disable MLSD even on a newer program so I wouldn't worry for now.
Perhaps you should suggest it at the suggestion section.

What are you trying to do with the X10?
Do you have to use the FTP protocol :) ?

Author:  cusance174 [ Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

chammykobs wrote:
See: https://wiki.filezilla-project.org/FTPS ... to_(Server)
What are you trying to do with the X10?
Do you have to use the FTP protocol :) ?


Just the usual, moving music to and from my PC onto the HDD1 of the X10 so i can then import into DB. nothing special
just normal FTP activity. Current FTP software is quite clever these days so you cant just 'switch off MLSD'.
What happens it sends a request to the FTP server (X10) to see if it supports the MLSD command. The X10 FTP server says 'yes' but then
does not recognise the actual command when it is used. Same thing with other current FTP clients like Filezilla, smartFTP etc.
I have corresponded with the filezilla author who describes the X10 FTP server as a typical 'lying' server. He actually described the X10 FTP server
in some colourful language !
He also thinks it should be put out of its misery, but that is probably an over reaction :) The main thing is that the FTP code in the X10 is bad. Very bad.

As I said before I am currently using an old FTP client but the X10 really needs to have its FTP server software updated.
The current one actually has several bugs in it not just MLSD. This really must be addressed with the next firmware update.
I gather it has been noted now. We live in happy anticipation :)

Author:  stane [ Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

@Cusance174

I wouldn't bother with this ftp...
Use access via SMB (SAMBA) or even create a shared dir & access the songs directly from the cocktail without having to copy the stuff twice.
+Enable SMB on the cocktail audio
or
+Use a dir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4pv-e0gvsw

Author:  cusance174 [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

stane wrote:
@Cusance174

I wouldn't bother with this ftp...
Use access via SMB (SAMBA) or even create a shared dir & access the songs directly from the cocktail without having to copy the stuff twice.
+Enable SMB on the cocktail audio
or
+Use a dir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4pv-e0gvsw


I had forgotten that SHARE still exists ;) Using a share is too slow and cumbersome. FTP is much faster and more efficient.
I am not sure if you use FTP at all. There is no extra copying involved.
F(ile) T(ransport) P(rotocol)

I use all other available facilities to access the X10 like the webserver, the Samba server etc.
Its the FTP server software on the X10 that doesnt wqork right and is badly coded.
this I think because the manufacturers have used a bunch of freely available freeware for some of the software
which is fine but regrettably some of this freeware isnt always written well.
Its a shame that the fastest and most secure and simplest file transfer system doesnt work well.
SHARE is a simple access route but far too slow and cumbersome. I prefer not to use it.
access via the SAMBA server would I guess be my next favourite but again, the file transfer protocol used is so slow.
I am sure that the FTP software will be updated in the next firmware update.

Author:  FabFreeq [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: major FTP issue

Wouldn't hold your breath on any more firmware updates for the X10, it's pretty much been kicked into touch!

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