Cocktail Audio™ UK Support Forum

|| www.facebook.com/CocktailAudioUK || www.cocktailaudio.co.uk || www.trustpilot.com/review/cocktailaudio.co.uk ||
It is currently Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:55 pm

All times are UTC


Untitled Document

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:55 am
Posts: 30
First of all i am a huge fan of the x10. It is the most useful apparatus i have ever purchased on a par with a laptop.
There have been many attempts to get an answer about when the backup will be made incremental for all users. The dismissive response from an Administrator that it was not a priority as there are other methods was quite frankly terrible customer support (leaving Trade Descriptions aside).
I have spent 3 days doing a back up. The first day and a half failed because although the x10 said i had the correct disk-space it was not accurate enough and i missed some files. The second attempt failed because of a power cut in a gale, the third i stopped because of the danger of lightning. I have just started my fourth attempt and of course, none of these attempts have been incremental, in fact it takes longer to scan the previous attempts!
If it is true that backup is not going to be supported then there should be clear posts from the administrators with official guidance on what these other methods are. For example if i had know all this sooner i could have saved myself some money by buying a 3TB hard-drive backup (for cloning) rather than the 2TB eternal hard-drive i bought for backup. The Administrators manufacturers and retailers also need to inform new purchasers that they will need to fork out extra money to create their own backup system.

I have read a lot of posts on other threads but it is not that clear to me what the alternative back-up methods are. So this post is to get some clear dummy-proof instructions.
So far the best suggestion came from someone who cloned using a dual docking station with a 3TB hard drive.
Before i spend £120 on this kit i want to be clear of what i am doing and whether there are cheaper or easier alternatives or, even better, are there any plans to restore a proper incremental backup.

If you reply please make it as for a dummy.
So my questions are:
1. Was the administrators post correct that there are no plans to fix the backup, and if it is going to fixed, then when?
2. There is a thread about using a 3tb hard-drive in the x10. Does this work as there was another post on another thread hinting that x10 does not work with a cloned 3TB hard-drive.
3. Does someone have step by step guide to cloning methods? Or any other methods of doing an incremental back up.
4. Is the benefit of cloning just that it is much faster (one member, i seem to remember, did a dual dock 1.5TB clone in about 4 hours). Can re-cloning also be incremental?
4. I should say that for me it is not sufficient to just add new folders to an expanded manual backup because it does not allow to any changes made to older files.

5. So far i have gleaned this cloning option. It costs £116. Is there a cheaper or easier option?
Purchase a dual docking station. Inateck Dual Two Bays Docking Station has been suggested by another forum member and costs £39. .
This method requires a hard-drive larger that the one inside the x10 so if, like me, you have a 2tb in your x10 you need a 3tb hard drive (WD green has been recommended by one poster). They cost about £77.
Then you need to remove the hard-drive from the x10 and stick it into the docking station along with the 3tb hard-drive and as far as i can gather you just have to push a button (or 2) on the docking station to get it to clone. from what i understand, no laptop connection is needed.

[Edited to make more concise]
6. My method. Connect the x10 and external hard drive to PC using 2 USB cables. Using cloning software (see below) clone or back up from the x10 to an external hard drive. No need to buy a 3tb hard-drive. To clone, the external hard drive needs to be same size as the hard drive in your PC but if you backup it only needs to be larger than your x10 DB.
I looked at free cloning software and using this guide http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-drive-cloning-software.htm
it looks like Aomei Backupper http://www.backup-utility.com/download.html will do the trick as it has an unlimited free edition with incremental back-up.
I am in the process of using this method and Aomei Backupper is easy to use. Fingers crossed. I will post later about the results.
Other cloning software:
From http://uk.pcmag.com/storage-devices-reviews/14364/feature/how-to-clone-a-hard-drive.
EaseUS http://mail.easeus.com/todobackup/download.phphas a free option although when i downloaded it i see it is just a trial. Hopefully the trial is not time-limited and it includes the incremental backup option.

7. Another method would be via your PC using Samba and a USB external hard drive and simply copy all the folders in the x10 to an external hard-drive. Does anyone know if this is any quicker than the x10 built in back-up method? If it is quicker this would be an option even though any future backups would not be incremental. And of course rather than using Samba you can connect the x10 to your PC via a USB cable as in above (6).

Thanks in advance.


Last edited by anandprasad on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:47 pm
Posts: 44
What a great comment...well done

For info i have backed up a few times now....my method is to carry out a recovery first....takes two or three hours....then i back up overnight....seems to work ok and i can cope with those timescales. I have about 17000 songs....about 180 gig


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:55 am
Posts: 30
Thanks.
It is when you get to have a large database that it gets to be a problem. Mine is 1.08TB and the x10 takes 33 hours to do a backup.
It isn't even feasible to test it when you have so much data as each test takes of course 33 hours. As others have pointed out this figure is much larger (doubled?) if the machine has to read your previous back up.
I was in the middle of the fourth x10 back up and again we had a power cut (now the heroic electric men/women have been out till midnight fixing it). This gave me chance of trying the last method described in my first post.
It works fine. The 33 hour back up by the x10 has been bettered by a 20 hour clone with Aomei Backupper (it is cloning now).
The user interface is completely idiot proof but of course you have to really stop and think because it would be quite easy to clone the wrong way around and you could potentially lose the whole x10 db or even other drives on your PC. It is really very simple but for that very reason it is best to really triple check yourself in each step.

In retrospect i think i should have used the backup function not the clone. I am just guessing it seems logical to me that a clone can't be incremental. I should probably read the software info more carefully but i was gun-ho about cloning because it had been mentioned on other threads as a good method.
Anyway i am very happy with the software and next time i will make sure i research more about incremental back up.

The £120 layout of the dual docking station and 3TB hard drive is still tempting IF it can do a 1.5TB backup in 4 hours as another forum member has posted. But for now i will stick to experimenting with Aomei backupper


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:20 pm
Posts: 104
I have installed AOMEI Bacupper and it's not a bad little programme. From what I have tried it does seem to do incremental backups that include any changes made to the metadata.
What and how to backup and restore does require a bit of thought though, and I think the best way would be to backup all of the folders and files on the X10's HDD. Which would then need to be restored to an empty HDD.

The backup(s) are stored as .afi files with normal compression as the standard setting, so they take up slightly less space than the original folders and files.
As they are .afi files then you will have to use AOMEI Bacupper or another programme that supports that file type to browse the contents or restore from a backup.

Unless there is a setting that I have missed, then doing a backup also creates folders for the path of the original files. So the actual folders and files that you need on the X10's HDD will have to be moved out of those and the extra "path" folders can then be deleted, but how long that will take is another question.

_________________
Oink Oink!...................................KEF LS50 Wireless/Partington Dreadnought Broadside.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:55 am
Posts: 30
Quote:
The backup(s) are stored as .afi files with normal compression as the standard setting, so they take up slightly less space than the original folders and files.
As they are .afi files then you will have to use AOMEI Bacupper or another programme that supports that file type to browse the contents or restore from a backup.


I think you can do it without compression. Settings has a 'no compression' option.

In case any one else wants to try it -
There is differential and incremental back up. One makes the changes from the original back-up and one makes changes from the last back up.
There is an explanation here http://www.backup-utility.com/features/incremental-differential-backup.html

I haven't tried using back-up yet as i used the clone method (which as i guessed does not give the incremental back up option).
My whole clone did take the 20 hours estimated for 1.08TB. That was 13 hours quicker than a first time back-up with the x10 so definitely an improvement but next time i will definitely try the backup.


Last edited by anandprasad on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:55 am
Posts: 30
I have now tested AOMEI Backuper using the disk backup feature (rather than the cloning method i tried first of all).

Let me first say i'm not promoting this software and have no investment in it. I presume there are equally if not better programmes out there, this one just happens to be free and easy to use and has a free incremental feature. In my previous posts i mentioned EaseUS Todo Backup which could be equally good. Feedback from anyone using the latter software would be welcome.

I used preferences to choose the non-compression option. I am not a techy so i've no idea if this is safer but i chose this option because it seemed safer (in case compression alters the files in some way).

To compare:
1tb Backup using the inbuilt Cocktail method took over 30 hours (for many users is non-incremental)
1tb Cloning using the AOMEI Backuper took 24 hrs (not incremental)
1.03 tb Disk Backup using AOMEI Backuper took under 11 hours (should be incremental but as yet untested by me).

Obviously the last method is a vast improvement (even without the incremental feature!). I haven't tried an incremental backup yet and will update this thread when i do.
The disk is backed up in an adi. file. You don't need any other software to view this backup file. Using AOMEI Backuper go to 'Utilities' and 'Explore Image' and follow the instructions. As i mentioned i am not a techy so excuse my non-tech language but it seems to create a new virtual image of the disk which can be opened in the normal way. So for example my external hard drive is labelled disk 'I' and so the programme creates another disk 'J'. It takes a few seconds.
This will allow for the folders to be imported into the excellent 'Mp3tag' free programme if you want to make a spreadsheet of your music.

Before backing up I left the 'test backup' box (can't remember the exact name) un-ticked but tried testing the backup afterwards although i gave up as this looked like it was going to take hours. Feedback from anyone who used this feature would be welcome.

Incidentally it looks like AOMEI and EaseUS Todo could be written by the same person. Both publishers names start with 'ChengDu' but it may just be a coincidence.

This is pretty obvious but just to be clear, there is no point in using software if you intend just to back-up specific files/folders because that can be done in the normal way by simply copying and pasting Aomei doesn't do an incremental back-up on chosen folders so it would be pointless to use it in that way.
I presume the reason that copying by any PC method (software or otherwise) will be quicker than using the Cocktail backup is that a PC processor is faster than that installed in the Cocktail. My PC is a bottom of the line laptop (Memory 4gb RAM and Processor 1900 - 2500 MHz) so my backup times should be conservative.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:51 pm
Posts: 6
The following method has worked well for me

I have a second hard drive which along with the X10 drive is connected via usb to PC then use BEYOND COMPARE to transfer copy of .db to second drive .
The first run takes a long time but any run after that is sequental only transfering any changes made thus is very quick

Works perfectly and gives me a complete populated drive to stick in the X10 if needed


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:55 am
Posts: 30
Hamish that sounds like a great tool.
I will give it a go. Did you purchase it to use the 3 way clone?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron